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Post by Shawnee on Aug 27, 2005 20:32:04 GMT -5
Hey guys, I don't know if you know this but Scott is a born again Christian. We have had brief conversations about it and I asked him if I could send him something about salvation to add to his web site. He loved the idea so I'm trying to get it together. I am a born again Christian as well and serve as our youth pastor at my church (even though I have a full time day job). I really enjoy discussing the Bible so if there is anything you would like to ask me about it, feel free. I am not saying that I know everything by any stretch, but part of the fun is getting stumped and having to research the answer from the Bible. Any takers?
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Post by Dirrty Craig on Aug 27, 2005 22:09:52 GMT -5
Yeah I knew that about Scott too. I'm a huge Theology buff myself and am a big fan of the Josh McDowell stuff about Christianity. "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" is an awesome book. I got an awesome NIV study bible too, its really informative for the deep stuff. Aside from the drinking and smoking and swearing, I'm a pretty good Christian,, LOL. Thats sounds terrible, but I really am.  I guess since I'm not "born again" I've enever really changed my lifestyle much, because I've always considered myself a Christian. I grew up very strict Serbian/Italian Orthadox. |
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Post by motrock on Aug 27, 2005 22:47:33 GMT -5
I grew up Catholic. I was an altar boy through my senior year of high school. I barely went to church during college cause I worked every Sunday. My family thinks I am anti-religion or something. LOL Work is work, and you gotta do what you gotta do. Know what I mean? I may not be able to attend church, but I my religious beliefs are still intact! Its something though........I have had enough stuff to challenge my beliefs, yet I still hold on. Don't know how I have done it! LOL I have always believed that the big guy upstairs has some kind of plan for us. All of the misfortune that I have endured for the past 6 years has to be for a reason. Someday I will find that out.  No matter what, I still can jam out on my guitar! ;D |
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Post by Dirrty Craig on Aug 28, 2005 0:10:30 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of church myself. I have a super-short attention span. Alot of those people go on and on about politics and goofy stuff that just doesn't apply to my life. I like Theology and I like analytical conversation about the bible. I like the historical and factual aspects of the stories of the New Testament books, especially Luke. I like hearing about what Jesus did and what he taught and the things he did. Years ago I went to a Bible study group for a few months with a friend and got more out of those few months than I did out of 20 years of going to church as a kid. That friend set me up with the tools, literature and a solid foundation in helping me figure out for myself what I believe in.
BUT, if I had kids I'd go to church, because I did enjoy it when I was a kid even if I didn't actually LEARN anything.
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Post by Dirrty Craig on Aug 28, 2005 0:27:41 GMT -5
Man shawnee you really got the wheels spinning tonight. Not having a gig on a Saturday for me is like a guaranteed sleepless night. I had a few more thoughts before I TRY to goto bed..
What do you guys feel about the whole live playing situation? I noticed some of you have signed up over on my bands site but not posted,,,LOL... Well, its DIRRTY over there. Lots of lewd, crude and all around metal debauchery happening. Our shows are even worse... even though I am happily married for 8 years and never take part in the "after parties", I can't deny that I like all the crazy stuff and people that show up to the shows. It adds a certain element of authenticity to being in an 80's tribute band. For example the pics Splawnfan put up of him surrounded by chicks putting their boobs in his face. To me thats funny and harmless. Happens all the time.
How do some of you guys feel about that type of stuff, I guess specifically you Shawnee being a Pastor and all?
I also had a long conversation with someone about the opinion that porn, swearing and d1ck and fart jokes are funny. For example the Jay and Silent Bob stuff. Lets take for example the movie Dogma. I thought that was hilarious and well thought out.
I think there are alot of people like me who consider themselves Christians but are somewhat thought of as hypocrites for finding the humor in stuff like this, and as a result keep their faith and beliefs underwraps. Any thoughts on that one?
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Post by Dirrty Craig on Aug 28, 2005 0:41:54 GMT -5
ooooh,, I just thought of something else you guys may find interesting then I am going to bed,, ahaha.
Ok, my band does anywhere from 2 to 5 charity gigs per year. Typically we just never turn them down when were asked. Theres one in particular we love doing which is called "Noize for Toyz" around Christmas-time which last year bought over $12,000 worth of toys for kids around Central Florida... so anyway
We were approached because of the success of the Noise for Toyz shows we've done to do a benefit for ALS and MD. Being a huge Jason Becker fan, I was all over this one and was pysched to do it and so were the guys in the band. To make a REALLY long post short, they canned us the week before the gig because the foundation running the benefit was a Christian run organization who found our bands website to be offensive. They ended up not even having it, all 3 other bands pulled out or were canned as well. Now to me that just doesn't make any sense.
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Post by Shawnee on Aug 28, 2005 8:30:20 GMT -5
Wow, I wasn't expecting this kind of response! Thank you so much guys. You never quite know how people will react when you start talking about religion. I don't even know where to start Craig! Let me start by saying that I have never been to Bible college (although I have taken a few courses). I am the youth pastor by default really. We have had several come and go over the last five years and when they do, I get the kids back. I seem to have this strange connection with teenagers. I guess because I've never really grown up in my heart although I have to be a responsible adult. Well I was raised Catholic and quit going to church all together when I was 18. I just didn't find what I was looking for. I didn't go back until I was 23 but this time I went to a hardcore independent Bible believing church. I met a guy at work who seemed to really have it together and we would talk for hours everyday about God. He was able to answer every question I had (and I have always wanted to be able to do the same for other people). Over the course of several months, I finally understood what he was saying. I agreed to visit his church and that day I became "born again" (got saved). I know it was real and I have been a different person since then. I guess because I considered myself such an unworthy person (and I still do), I have always had a burden to talk to people about Jesus who are sometimes labeled "too far gone" by stiff necked Christians. We run busses at my church and pick up some pretty rough kids of various minorities. Sadly, we had to stop bringing in the high schoolers because of fights and things like that because we just didn't have enough workers to handle them all. The police would have to come straighten it all out. I also do Brazilian Jiu-jitsu so I try to witness to some Cage fighters that I know as well. You just never know who God is going to get a hold of and do something great with. You have to witness to everyone and let God do what he wants from there. Let me say this: I believe that the Bible is 100% correct so I will post scriptures to show why I believe what I post. To me, what else is there? Opinions change, religions change, society changes, but the true Word of God will endure and never changes. I have to go to church now! I'll start answering questions soon. Thanks again Craig and Motrock.
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Post by shreder75 on Aug 28, 2005 12:46:04 GMT -5
interesting topic =) and it's stayed friendly thus far..lol.usually religion can spawn some pretty volatile reactions =)
I was born and raised Catholic. I have two priests and a nun in the family...my mom and dad were eucharistic ministers..my wife's a catholic school teacher, my mother in law's a catholic school teacher...my aunt teaches sunday school...
you'd think with all this I'd be some kinda big church guy, but I'm not..lol...I used to go every sunday, but when I started going away to college (many moons ago) I just stopped..so now I'm a Christmas and Easter kinda church goer..
being married to a catholic school teacher, you learn alot about the beaurocracy involved in it...and, quite honestly, it turned me off from the whole thing...not the general teachings, but the whole organization of it...I won't get into all of it, but let's just say its left a bad taste in my mouth...red tape, the way they treat the teachers, blah blah blah...
as to what you were saying craig..about the swearing, drinking, smoking (I didn't know you were a smoker..man, I gotta friggin quit..WAY too expensive...lol...)..I don't think that makes you a bad person or christian...and like you said about the movie dogma or anything similar to that..just because someone finds that kinda thing funny doesn't mean they're a bad person...you have to take that sort of thing with a grain of salt...it's a movie, they're jokes...they fall into the funny, but 'man, that's just sooo WRONG' category..LOL....
bottom line..do the best you can to just be a good person...to some, being a good person is going to church as much as possible..to others, it's just being good to other people and trying to walk the straight and narrow even though nobody's perfect...
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Post by Shawnee on Aug 28, 2005 13:21:52 GMT -5
Yeah I knew that about Scott too. I'm a huge Theology buff myself and am a big fan of the Josh McDowell stuff about Christianity. "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" is an awesome book. I got an awesome NIV study bible too, its really informative for the deep stuff. Aside from the drinking and smoking and swearing, I'm a pretty good Christian,, LOL. Thats sounds terrible, but I really am. I guess since I'm not "born again" I've enever really changed my lifestyle much, because I've always considered myself a Christian. I grew up very strict Serbian/Italian Orthadox. I had no idea you that you are a theology buff Craig.Man that's awesome. I'm curious as to why you say that you are a pretty good Christian (not that I'm disputing that). I'm just wondering what makes someone "good" or not? The fact that you say that you are not born again does bother me though. Jesus tells Nicodemus in John chapter three that in order to see the kingdom of God, ye must be born again. |
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Post by Shawnee on Aug 28, 2005 13:24:38 GMT -5
I grew up Catholic. I was an altar boy through my senior year of high school. I barely went to church during college cause I worked every Sunday. My family thinks I am anti-religion or something. LOL Work is work, and you gotta do what you gotta do. Know what I mean? I may not be able to attend church, but I my religious beliefs are still intact! Its something though........I have had enough stuff to challenge my beliefs, yet I still hold on. Don't know how I have done it! LOL I have always believed that the big guy upstairs has some kind of plan for us. All of the misfortune that I have endured for the past 6 years has to be for a reason. Someday I will find that out. No matter what, I still can jam out on my guitar! ;D God does have a plan. It's great that you haven't gotten discouraged and blamed God for your problems like so many people do. Sometimes God lets things happen to make us seek him out so he can fix out problems. |
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Post by Dirrty Craig on Aug 28, 2005 13:49:39 GMT -5
I suppose I used the term "born again" as it would apply to those who previously had no faith and then suddenly found it. What I meant was, I've always had my faith and I guess a "personal relationship" with God in my own way so I never felt the need or urgency to reclaim it so to speak, I never lost it or can remember a time without it!
When I said good Christian, maybe good person would have been a better choice of words llike Shreder said. I have always accepted Christ as my personal savior, but he'll have to forgive me for some of my more questionable choices in life... LOL.
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Post by Shawnee on Aug 28, 2005 14:12:16 GMT -5
What do you guys feel about the whole live playing situation? I noticed some of you have signed up over on my bands site but not posted,,,LOL... Well, its DIRRTY over there. Lots of lewd, crude and all around metal debauchery happening. Our shows are even worse... even though I am happily married for 8 years and never take part in the "after parties", I can't deny that I like all the crazy stuff and people that show up to the shows. It adds a certain element of authenticity to being in an 80's tribute band. For example the pics Splawnfan put up of him surrounded by chicks putting their boobs in his face. To me thats funny and harmless. Happens all the time. How do some of you guys feel about that type of stuff, I guess specifically you Shawnee being a Pastor and all? I also had a long conversation with someone about the opinion that porn, swearing and d1ck and fart jokes are funny. For example the Jay and Silent Bob stuff. Lets take for example the movie Dogma. I thought that was hilarious and well thought out. I think there are alot of people like me who consider themselves Christians but are somewhat thought of as hypocrites for finding the humor in stuff like this, and as a result keep their faith and beliefs underwraps. Any thoughts on that one? Honestly....... My flesh likes it, but my spirit hates it. It just depends on which side is winning the battle at that particular moment. I do think it's wrong though so I don't drink or go to bars at all (Psalm 101:3). As a matter of fact, Eric Johnson played a local club last week and as much as I wanted to see him, I didn't go. Look at it this way: would you care if some drunk guy put his crotch in your wife's face while you were out? What if you had a daughter and she was drunk rubbing herself on some guy at a bar in front of a bunch of people? As a general rule, if you wouldn't say it, do it, watch it, or hear it if your Preacher, Mother, Your kids much less Jesus himself were standing next to you, then you already know it's wrong. Although we can usually ignore that and do what we want anyway. Genesis chapter 39 shows us that even if we don't have bad intentions, bad things can happen when we are in a situation that we shouldn't be in. I really didn't want to get into to this Craig because I don't want to sound like I'm telling everyone what to do. I didn't start this thread to come down on anyone. I just wanted to answer your question honestly. I don't watch a lot of movies so I didn't see the Jay and Silent Bob movie or Dogma. I'm not into dirty jokes but I do like fart jokes.  Jesus says in Luke 9:26 that if we are ashamed of Jesus, then he will be ashamed of us when we stand before God at the judgement. I don't want to be labeled a hypocrite, but I'm not perfect either. I guess just being honest and doing my best to do what the Bible says is all I can do. I may fall tomorrow. If I do, I pray that I will get back up, repent, and do my best again. |
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Post by Shawnee on Aug 28, 2005 14:35:50 GMT -5
I suppose I used the term "born again" as it would apply to those who previously had no faith and then suddenly found it. What I meant was, I've always had my faith and I guess a "personal relationship" with God in my own way so I never felt the need or urgency to reclaim it so to speak, I never lost it or can remember a time without it! When I said good Christian, maybe good person would have been a better choice of words llike Shreder said. I have always accepted Christ as my personal savior, but he'll have to forgive me for some of my more questionable choices in life... LOL. I have no way to know who is saved and who is lost. The Bible even says in Matthew 13:30 that the tares (lost) will be among the wheat (saved) when Jesus comes back. I'll just give you this analogy: We all know a lot about Eddie Van Halen. When and where he was born, what kinds of guitars and amps he's played, who his brother is, who his wife was, his kid's name, ect. I know all about him. If I saw him somewhere, I would say "Hey! There's eddie Van Halen!" The only problem is, Eddie doesn't know me. He would look at me like "do I know you?" Jesus says in Matthew 7:21-23 that many people claim to know him who have never met him. Even the Devil knows all about Jesus but is doomed to spend eternity in the lake of fire. Knowing doesn't seal the deal. Salvation is a gift according to Ephesians 2:8-9. Jesus offered the gift of eternal life when he died on the cross for your sins. Knowing that the gift is there is only part of it. You still have to accept that gift to make it yours. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says that if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away and all things become new. I know I'm saved because of the change in my life. I knew who Jesus was before that, but hadn't given myself to him yet. He delivered me from many things that I couldn't conquer on my own. Whether it's a good Christian or a good person, I still need to know what "good" is? |
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Post by Dirrty Craig on Aug 29, 2005 2:12:24 GMT -5
I think its interesting so, no need to apologize. I wouldn't have replied to the thread if I didn't enjoy talking about it. I've never had any issues with alchohol or drugs (aside from cigarettes). Its never dictated anything I do in my life and I've never had any addictions to any of it. But I do know alot of born again alchoholics. I've never had an issue with temptation toward other woman and never cheated on my wife, but I know alot of born again adulterers too. I've never killed or stolen either, but our prisons are full of born again murderers and rapists... you get my point. Its too bad you missed Eric Johnson though. Herein lies my issues and where I "fall short" a bit. Its just a house where they served alchohol. Your not required to partake in any of it. You could have just watched Eric and left. Its whats in your heart that matters not the fact that your at a bar with a bunch of drunks. Being baptized and raised Serbian Orthadox I grew up going to a church where drinking and smoking were a part of the after-mass party at the hall adjacent to the church. I was always surrounded by great music, ethnic foods and people drinking LOL. I believe that there is no fooling God. He knows whats in your heart and thats what makes you good or not good. If your going to use Old Testament Scripture (Psalm) to live your life by, then you might as well build your self a box and never come out. I think it was Exodus 20 something that says: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, ....nor his @ss,..." LOL.. a little Old Testament humor to lighten things up.. |
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Post by Shawnee on Aug 29, 2005 7:30:42 GMT -5
I'm enjoying this too Craig. You have a great attitude Bro.
So is your point that a lot of people who claim to be "born again" aren't or that it doesn't really mean anything if they are? My point is that everyone falls short. The Bible calls David "a man after God's own heart". David commited adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband Uriah (one of his own military leaders) killed in battle. Bathsheba was pregnant with David's child. David couldn't trick Uriah into sleeping with her (so that he might think that the child was his) because he wouldn't go home to be with his wife while his troops were in battle. He was a man of character. Then David sends Uriah back to battle with a note to the leader on the battlefield that said to put Uriah in the front of the heat of battle and have everyone else retreat. Uriah delivered his own death note to his boss and was killed in battle. How could David be a man after God's own heart and do that? How about Paul. He penned the majority of the New Testament yet he was a murderer of Christians before he was converted on the road to Demascus. Moses killed an Egyptian before he became the leader of the Israelites. Why did God use these men to do his work if they were so wicked?
The Exodus joke is not funny........... ok maybe it is. :-)
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