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Post by zoomzilla on Aug 19, 2008 20:57:50 GMT -5
Well hopefully I can find out about this trick. I just need to get a QR first!
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Post by fastredponycar on Aug 25, 2008 14:53:41 GMT -5
The Preamp tubes that would be  Which is precisely what needs to be pushed hard to get a smooth tone. |
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Post by AndyK on Nov 8, 2008 21:07:12 GMT -5
The Preamp tubes that would be Which is precisely what needs to be pushed hard to get a smooth tone. THIS is key! Normally, when using an amp at low master volumes, all you are hearing is preamp tube distortion. But with the master at less than 1, you must not be feeding the preamp tubes proper current, or something. Being able to crank the master to 9:00 gets the current flowing, and then lowering the sound before it gets to the power tubes (via the loop trick, or Drew's cool "mod") retains the hot preamp tube tone, at super low volumes. Reading through this thread it seems what you use in the loop has an effect on the touch sensitivity and high end. My old Nanoverb is sucking the highs out of the attenuated tone, and robbing me of touch sensitivity. I have to try an EB JR volume pedal 25k or a Drew mod! Can't wait to hit either Radio Shack or Guitar Center tomorrow! Best bedroom volume amp thread ever!! ;D |
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Post by hobbs101 on Nov 9, 2008 10:57:47 GMT -5
Question... I noticed that in WERNER1's box he built he soldered the sleeves of the jacks together on one pole and the tips were separated on the other two poles on the 25k pot and he said "Drew - Mine comes on pretty quick as well... which I don't like or get! ... but it still works for what it's being used for ... just not as smooth as I thought it'd be. (??)
Rick ( by the way, very cool box )
Now when fastredponycar wired his jacks and pot up he soldered the two tips together and separated the sleeves on a 10k pot plus he used a cap and he said "I got a 10K audio taper pot from radio shack and lo and behold, it works like a CHAMP!! very smooth and gentle volume introduction from whisper quiet to flat our roar.
I started with no capacitor then went to a single 0.002µF orange drop cap then piggy backed on a .001 cap. Still haven't decided 100% on which one I like best or both or neither. It doesn't change the sound really much at all."
Now my question is do you think the difference between the quick increase in vol on WERNER1's rig and the smooth gentle increase on fastredponycar's is the k of the pot or the switched wiring. According to pony with or without he cap didn't make much of a difference.
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Post by Ayton(e) on Nov 9, 2008 15:54:26 GMT -5
It's more likely down to the taper. Audio taper pots we perceive as smooth volume control, linear we perceive as having sudden changes.
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Post by ronmail65 on Nov 12, 2008 17:09:23 GMT -5
We're all skirting the real issue here... which is... tube amps are too damn loud!! 100W, 120W, 200W, etc... is just silly (I apologize to those of you who regularly play arenas and huge outdoor festivals).
Serious, what gigs have any of us played that couldn't have been handled (in terms of volume) by an 18w 1x12 combo (assuming you could find one with the features and tone you wanted)?
Plus with an 18W amp you would get the bonus of running a tube amp's master volume on 6 or 7 and get great power tube distortion and tone!!
Don't get me wrong -- I love rolling into a gig with a 1/2 stack or a full stack. But it seems silly when my master volume is usually somewhere between 1 and 2 (about 7:30 on my ProMod). It's like having a high performance race car for your 5 mile local commute that is peppered with stop lights and a 35mph speed limit.
I would love to be able to get an 18W or 30W ProMod 1x12 combo or head!! Same knobs and features, just smaller with a lot less power.
Am I wrong...?
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Post by supercharged350 on Nov 12, 2008 17:35:50 GMT -5
We're all skirting the real issue here... which is... tube amps are too damn loud!! 100W, 120W, 200W, etc... is just silly (I apologize to those of you who regularly play arenas and huge outdoor festivals). Serious, what gigs have any of us played that couldn't have been handled (in terms of volume) by an 18w 1x12 combo (assuming you could find one with the features and tone you wanted)? Plus with an 18W amp you would get the bonus of running a tube amp's master volume on 6 or 7 and get great power tube distortion and tone!! Don't get me wrong -- I love rolling into a gig with a 1/2 stack or a full stack. But it seems silly when my master volume is usually somewhere between 1 and 2 (about 7:30 on my ProMod). It's like having a high performance race car for your 5 mile local commute that is peppered with stop lights and a 35mph speed limit. I would love to be able to get an 18W or 30W ProMod 1x12 combo or head!! Same knobs and features, just smaller with a lot less power. Am I wrong...? Different strokes and all that. I'm good with my Splawn as is. But I don't use the loop w/ any toys in it. If you can live w/o a clean channel buy a Competition w/ KT 88's and run it 25 watts. If it's got the tone who cares how much volume your not using...  |
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Post by LooseCannon on Nov 12, 2008 18:00:00 GMT -5
Well an 18 watts amp will never sound like a 100 watt amp because of design and headroom issues, besides with splawns you don't need power amp distortion, though you do need to get your volume up to 9:00 to open it up and I guess that would equal around 12:00 on an 18 watt tube amp?
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Post by stompboxfreak1972 on Nov 12, 2008 19:09:26 GMT -5
I have been using an EB volume pedal and not been happy with it for various reasons. I bought an Omnisonic box off of ebay two weeks ago and forgot about it. I finally tried it out this afternoon and I like it much more than a volume pedal at first glance. My opinion may change but I really enjoyed the hour I spent with it today.
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Post by ronmail65 on Nov 12, 2008 21:46:07 GMT -5
Well an 18 watts amp will never sound like a 100 watt amp because of design and headroom issues, besides with splawns you don't need power amp distortion, though you do need to get your volume up to 9:00 to open it up and I guess that would equal around 12:00 on an 18 watt tube amp? How do you do that? At half power, 2nd gear / OD 1, gain at 12:00 -- I still can't get the Master Volume on my PM up to 9:00 at gigs. It would totally dominate stage volume and the monitors. Can you really get your amp at or above 9:00 at gigs without volume pedals or attenuators? I practice louder at home that I can with a band or at most gigs. |
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Post by stompboxfreak1972 on Nov 13, 2008 6:18:03 GMT -5
Well an 18 watts amp will never sound like a 100 watt amp because of design and headroom issues, besides with splawns you don't need power amp distortion, though you do need to get your volume up to 9:00 to open it up and I guess that would equal around 12:00 on an 18 watt tube amp? How do you do that? At half power, 2nd gear / OD 1, gain at 12:00 -- I still can't get the Master Volume on my PM up to 9:00 at gigs. It would totally dominate stage volume and the monitors. Can you really get your amp at or above 9:00 at gigs without volume pedals or attenuators? I practice louder at home that I can with a band or at most gigs. +1. I have played my Nitro at 4 or 5 gigs now and I could never use it without a volume pedal or similar taming device. Funny thing is most guys on this forum are playing Splawn amps in clubs like myself. Since there are so few "national acts" such as KSE or Tony Rombola that have caught on to Splawn amps.... I just don't understand why Scott makes these amps so unusably loud for the majority of his contingent. |
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Post by LooseCannon on Nov 13, 2008 7:38:28 GMT -5
Well an 18 watts amp will never sound like a 100 watt amp because of design and headroom issues, besides with splawns you don't need power amp distortion, though you do need to get your volume up to 9:00 to open it up and I guess that would equal around 12:00 on an 18 watt tube amp? How do you do that? At half power, 2nd gear / OD 1, gain at 12:00 -- I still can't get the Master Volume on my PM up to 9:00 at gigs. It would totally dominate stage volume and the monitors. Can you really get your amp at or above 9:00 at gigs without volume pedals or attenuators? I practice louder at home that I can with a band or at most gigs. I have a Competition so 50 watts, but still damn loud, the 25 watts mode really tames it down but I never use it, I know some guys here have their master volume on 10:00- 11:00 in gigs. But my point was that if you can't put your volume on 9:00 with your splawn you wouldn't be able to crank an 18 watts amp either. |
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Post by ronmail65 on Nov 13, 2008 14:41:39 GMT -5
Just to clarify... I think ALL tube amps 50W or higher are just too loud for most applications. I wasn't picking on Splawn in particular. I think it would be great to have a 30W or 18W ProMod or something like that -- bascially a combination of current features and tones of the 120W ProMod with a more 'modest' output (if such a thing can be created). Maybe a lower wattage amp just isn't capable of emulating the tones of higher wattage amps. I guess I just feel silly sometimes with a 120W monster amp that is barely turned on.
About the volume pedal thing…
So I stumbled onto the volume pedal thing a month ago while figuring out the 4-cable method with a Boss GT-10 (which, by the way, has been awesome! The effects sound so much better when chained around the preamp instead of all in front of the preamp). I agree with the earlier sentiments that 1) the amp does sound different (I would say a little more compressed – I get feedback at lower audible volumes), and 2) that the master volume and power tubes being cranked up higher should have no impact on the sound.
So why does the amp sound different? My theory… the send on Splawns have a -10db switch (-24db and other settings) so maybe we’re pulling a less potent preamp signal and then somehow returning a signal that has been inadvertently strengthened or compressed by the volume pedal. Or maybe the loop return on the amp interprets the signal differently. Whatever the reason, I believe there is signal compression occurring that has nothing to do with the power section of the amp. I wish it was some power tube gain – ahhh…. To have a low wattage Splawn.
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Post by shreder75 on Nov 13, 2008 14:49:50 GMT -5
How do you do that? At half power, 2nd gear / OD 1, gain at 12:00 -- I still can't get the Master Volume on my PM up to 9:00 at gigs. It would totally dominate stage volume and the monitors. Can you really get your amp at or above 9:00 at gigs without volume pedals or attenuators? I practice louder at home that I can with a band or at most gigs. +1. I have played my Nitro at 4 or 5 gigs now and I could never use it without a volume pedal or similar taming device. Funny thing is most guys on this forum are playing Splawn amps in clubs like myself. Since there are so few "national acts" such as KSE or Tony Rombola that have caught on to Splawn amps.... I just don't understand why Scott makes these amps so unusably loud for the majority of his contingent. Scott's amps were built with intention of being put up on a stage.. a lower wattage splawn will sound different than a higher wattage splawn.... I would run my master at about 8:30 or 9:00..but I wasn't going into the PA..it was all stage volume and I liked it that way... |
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Post by shreder75 on Nov 13, 2008 14:52:11 GMT -5
We're all skirting the real issue here... which is... tube amps are too damn loud!! 100W, 120W, 200W, etc... is just silly (I apologize to those of you who regularly play arenas and huge outdoor festivals). Serious, what gigs have any of us played that couldn't have been handled (in terms of volume) by an 18w 1x12 combo (assuming you could find one with the features and tone you wanted)? Plus with an 18W amp you would get the bonus of running a tube amp's master volume on 6 or 7 and get great power tube distortion and tone!! Don't get me wrong -- I love rolling into a gig with a 1/2 stack or a full stack. But it seems silly when my master volume is usually somewhere between 1 and 2 (about 7:30 on my ProMod). It's like having a high performance race car for your 5 mile local commute that is peppered with stop lights and a 35mph speed limit. I would love to be able to get an 18W or 30W ProMod 1x12 combo or head!! Same knobs and features, just smaller with a lot less power. Am I wrong...? if you want an 18 watt marshall type amp, go buy a ceriatone....they make super low wattage marshall voiced amps...there's all kinds of low wattage marshall clones |
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