Big Block/Small Block vs V30s

[calledtoarms]

Hi all. I have been looking for a new cabinet for awhile. I REALLY love Mesa Traditional 4x12s and Framus 4x12s. Probably my 2 favorite Cabs for what I play and they both rock V30s.

I am playing several different Ibanez guitars (mainly an S5470) through a Mesa Dual Rectifier. I am playing detuned metal (C Standard). I really want to FEEL the palm muted heavy parts but I also want a crisp warm tone for arpeggios and neck pickup leads as well as smooth tremolo picking.

Currently I have a peavey 5150 cab that really isnt getting the job done, and the casing is a bit beat up. I have been highly recommended to check with Splawn so I called and talked to Josh yesterday. He was awesome and super nice. Took the time to check out my band and everything. He highly recommended the Big Block / Small Block X position setup over V30s. I trust his judgement, but havent ever hearing the small / big block eminence, i want to get some feedback before I spend 800 bucks that i have been budgeting on a cabinet when I know I like V30s. (Either way I am looking at getting a Splawn)

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

My band has recordings up at www.myspace.com/calledtoarms if you want an idea of our sound. this is *not* a plug for my band. but hearing is worth a thousand words (musicians take on the old saying haha). the recordings were done with a mesa triple and a marshall cab at the time but you should get an idea for the type we play.

my favorite metal tones come from paul waggoner in between the buried and me: www.myspace.com/betweentheburiedandmeband

sorry to overload you all with information, but I figured better to give you as much as I could!! Im hoping to order one within the next few weeks.

Thanks again!!

[snappinnecks]

I would go with either GOV/MAN, all GOV, or Texas Heats. I found the Splawn Big/Small combo to be a bit woofy for detuned C or lower. Mesa amps usually sound the best through V30's in my opinion. I haven't heard one through GOVs, but i'm thinking it will sound really good since the highs are rounder on the GOVs. If you have a Splawn amp then definantly go with the eminence. I think I am the only one who uses Texas Heats on here. I love the enormous head room they have. Here is one opinion for ya.

[supercharged350]

I'd stay away from the Big blocks for detuning like snappingnecks said, however the Smallblock 25's have a nice neutral tone that works great for me in dropped tunings. I just switched over from V30's for recording recently. The V30's have a substantial mid-spike that some love and some hate so be warned that the Smallblocks are way more neutral in the mids if you're a fan of that middy tone. I got great recordings w/ V30's too, I just wanted to try something different. Here's a Bullet For My Valentine clip (drop C) I did w/ a SB 25 in my Randall Isocab recently if you're interested.

splawnfans.proboards38.com/index.cgi?board=clips&action=display&thread=4129

[Silverwulf]

Holy coincidence, Batman! It just so happens at our practice spot, right now we do have a:

A) Mesa Dual Rectifier
B) Mesa 4X12 (Straight, Traditional) 4X12 Cab w/30's (280W)
C) Splawn 4X12 w/X-Pattern of BB's and SB 65's

If nothing else, maybe we can just toss up a room mic and do a few quick clips of the two cabs using the Recto for you.

[calledtoarms]

thanks for the replies so far guys. and that is a crazy coincidence! If you ever had the time to do that, that would be great! If not I appreciate the thought.

[Silverwulf]

Apr 17, 2008 15:18:07 GMT -5 calledtoarms said:

thanks for the replies so far guys. and that is a crazy coincidence! If you ever had the time to do that, that would be great! If not I appreciate the thought.

No promises, but we might be able to do that tonight actually. Our drummer isn't coming out, so we'll probably just mess around and write. I'll see what we can do.

About the BB's...we haven't had any issues with downtuning with them. We play quite a bit of stuff in Drop Db with no problems, and we do have one track in a Dropped Bb tuning (Bb-Ab-Db-Gb-Bb-Eb).Of non-Splawn amps, we've also put a JCM 800 and a Mesa Mark III through it so far, never had any probems in the lower registers. I'll see what brief clips we can whip up tonight. Nothing fancy with proper mic placement or anything. Likely just a quick and dirty room mic close to the cabs to give you an idea of the difference.

[Silverwulf]

Are you local to the DC area? If so, feel free to grab your amp and come on out tonight and give them a try if you like.

EDIT: N/M, you're in NC...we'll make clips... ;D

[calledtoarms]

yea thanks for the offer man but as you saw the band is from NC and I moved to SC last year (and drive to NC 4 hours for practices haha) so it wouldnt quite work out.

[calledtoarms]

and even if you cant get sound clips, your comparison would be appreciated im curious as to similarities between a mesa traditional 4x12 with V30s and the Splawn with the V30s (id imagine they sound very similar, which would be fine since i like the way the mesa traditionals sound)

[Silverwulf]

Apr 17, 2008 21:52:02 GMT -5 calledtoarms said:

and even if you cant get sound clips, your comparison would be appreciated im curious as to similarities between a mesa traditional 4x12 with V30s and the Splawn with the V30s (id imagine they sound very similar, which would be fine since i like the way the mesa traditionals sound)

Well, our vocalist brought his little Tascam device with him, but we had some difficulty with it into his laptop, so no clips... Had a lot of digital clipping within the unit itself at first. If we have more time next time, we'll still try to get some together for you.

The two cabs are drastically different. With the Recto, I actually much prefer the Mesa cab. It obviously has more midrange in it, and it has a little more "body" to it. Handles gain really well. The Splawn cab (BB/SB 65's) sounds better with other amps IMO. With the Recto, I think it thins out the tone a little more than I would like, and I think the V30's really shine with the low-mid focused amp. It sounds good with the Splawn amps, and I liked it with the JCM 800 and Mark III we put through it, but I wasn't caring for it with the Recto. Again, all just my opinion.

With the Mesa cabs, it's important to note that there's a few variations. Obviously you know there's the oversized and traditional sized cabs, and I definitely prefer the traditional (tighter bass versus "bigger" bass). But there's also the 280W and 240W versions. Mesa has a proprietary design with Celestion, and their Black Shadow V30's aren't the same as the stock ones you'll find in Marshall cabs or on the shelf (they're also still made in the UK versus China for the others). Originally they had ones that were rated at 70W, had a slightly different bass curve to it and slightly more relaxed mids. Still had the mid-spike, just not as pronounced. Now they make them rated at 60W and closer to the originals. So, there's two variations of the cab. It's not a huge difference, but it's enough to notice a difference if you know what you're listening for.

So, not only would a Splawn cab with V30's different from a Mesa cab with V30's, some Mesa cabs with V30's may differ also depending on what year it was made.

[calledtoarms]

thanks a ton for that post . the only problem on my end being that its still going to be hard to decide on a cabinet now haha. youre probably right on the V30s really syncing up well with the dual rec since every cab ive heard that ive loved with my dual rec has been a V30 cab. Which probably narrows me down to definitely favoring the V30s and just deciding what cabinet I want to get them in. Id really love to support splawn so im still keeping them at the top of my list.

The Framus dragon 4x12 has nearly identical dimensions to the Splawn and i LOVE The way they sound, so id imagine the Splawn would sound very similar to that. (comparing the mesa dimensions, the splawns are the same but 3/4" shorter, but having slightly different V30s probably)

hmm decisions decisions. (and obviously im terrible at making them when it comes to equipment haha).

[Silverwulf]

Yeah, I really don't think you can go wrong with V30's with the Recto. If you've played other V30 cabs with it and liked the sound, I'm sure it would be right up your alley.

In terms of which cab to get, either one would work out just fine for you. If you find a great deal on a used one, roll with it. If not, I think you'd be perfectly happy with the Spalwn or the Mesa V30 cabs. There is a little difference in them tonally I'm sure. As I mentioned, the Mesa's are a proprietary design, where as the ones that Splawn would use would be the same Chinese built V30's off the shelf - but don't let that deter you. Some people like to complain based on where they were made alone, and I can confidently say there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Chinese made Celestions.

I'm not familiar with BTBAM, but I assume they play and toe similar to bands like KSE? If so, you're on the right path. I've actually had people tell me that my Recto setup sounds like KSE's albums, if you want to use that for reference.

[calledtoarms]

yea they are somewhat similar. BTBAM is a little more technical -more sweeping and solos and drum fills- (they are going on tour with opeth and dream theater next month) and his tone has a little more color. but KSE also has killer tone that is pretty similar.

and yea, ive found that when it comes to electronics, chinese or korean made products have seemed to perform toe to toe just as well as where the product is from (say england or germany for example).

[calledtoarms]

so i talked to josh some more and he still recommends the bb/sb combo. well specifically he said "The small block and big block combination would be the closet thing we have to v-30’s" although I should probably take that to mean that with their eminence setup they normally do, the bb/sb is the closest resemblance, because im pretty sure they can buy/put in V30s for me if i asked.

with the bb, you all said it sounded a bit woofy with lower tunings? as in not tight or farty or what?

and also, when getting my amp mic'd at a venue is it going to be a hassle having a speaker combo instead of all one speaker?

[Silverwulf]

Well, I respect everyones opinion, and everyone hears things differently so there's no right or wrong answer - but I don't think the BB/SB combo sounds anything like a V30 setup. You A/B those cabs at our practice spot and it's like apples and oranges.

It really just comes down to preference. For the Splawns, I really dig the BB/SB setup. Like I said, we play most of our songs in Drop Db and have one in Dropped B and we have no low end problem with the BB's. I think the cab sounds good with the Mark III also. For the Recto, I don't like it at all. However - as always, YMMV.

As for playign live with a speaker mix, I think we've had that discussion before. That's another one where YMMV. DC for instance has no probs and says he was dual mic'd and worked with some good engineers live, so it wasn't an issue for him. Most of the larger places we play are just going to toss up a mic quickly and not offer a second, so you'd likely only hear one speaker or the other. However, I wouldn't worry too much about it overall. At small holes in the wall, people will hear your amp as much as a PA, and at larger venues - if you like the overall sound of the X-Pattern, you probably won't notice much difference cranked through a 10,000W PA sitting in a mix anyway.