Drop B+ switch, safe to switch while amp is running?

[zerofivefour]

Just wondering what the proper procedure to switch the amp to Drop B+ on and off is? 

I have been putting mine on standby for this, but I wonder if this is necessary or not.
Or if I should do a complete power down and then engage and/or disengage the drop B+

I read the online manual, but I couldn't find any warnings or protocols for this.

I use the option for a few songs, where spongy is preferable. It really is a great option/feature.

Thanks for any info.


Cheers,

Tom

[briman]

Hey Tom,
I don't know the answer but I always put mine on standby before switching just to be safe.
I don't switch it very often though as i love the sponginess!😊

[splawndude]

I would say use the Standby but to be sure I would ask Scott.

My first thought was that it won't matter based on what the B+ option is actually doing (removing the higher voltages or the B+ voltages). Then I decided the smarter answer was to say to use the Standby switch and contact Scott for the ultimate answer.

The reason I don't think it will matter is that the Standby switch is really nothing more than a glorified mute switch. Using it incorrectly can actually be damaging to your amp. For example, you would be better off not using it then using it between every song on your set. You can look up cathode stripping and cathode poisoning to learn more about that. Safe to say though that your tubes will wear down more just from the amp being turned on and off. Therefore, some would argue that it is actually better to just leave your amp on.

I don't have the option and my answer is more of an educated guess.

[gtrjunior]

Again...I don't know that correct answer. Using the standby switch seems like the logical thing to do. That said, I have switched it on/off without the amp in standby.
I'd love to know Scott's thoughts on this, if you happen to email him.

[zerofivefour]

Briman, Splawndude, GtrJr,


Thanks for the replies and insight.

Took your advice and emailed The man Himself.




Scott said, "Standby is fine".

So there you have it.



Splawndude,

Could you elaborate more about the B+ voltages, I am always interested in learning about What is actually happening with my amps.

Also if you happen to know what is "happening" when I engage the Mid switch and Old/New that would be excellent.


Thanks much.


Cheers,

Tom

[gtrjunior]

Did scott specifically say NOT to switch it (Drop B+) while in "play" mode?

[zerofivefour]

May 12, 2017 12:12:01 GMT -5 gtrjunior said:

Did scott specifically say NOT to switch it (Drop B+) while in "play" mode?

GtrJr,




His only words were..."Standby is fine".



I know that is a brief answer, but that's all I got. 



I did ask regarding the 3 possibilites.

Standby
Powering down
Neither

He replied with the above.

Hope that helps.


Cheers,

Tom

[gtrjunior]

Gotcha...yeah, he understandably gives short answers such as that!
Standby it is, from now on. Although I usually just leave it engaged.

[zerofivefour]

May 11, 2017 21:47:32 GMT -5 splawndude said:

I would say use the Standby but to be sure I would ask Scott.

My first thought was that it won't matter based on what the B+ option is actually doing (removing the higher voltages or the B+ voltages). Then I decided the smarter answer was to say to use the Standby switch and contact Scott for the ultimate answer.

The reason I don't think it will matter is that the Standby switch is really nothing more than a glorified mute switch. Using it incorrectly can actually be damaging to your amp. For example, you would be better off not using it then using it between every song on your set. You can look up cathode stripping and cathode poisoning to learn more about that. Safe to say though that your tubes will wear down more just from the amp being turned on and off. Therefore, some would argue that it is actually better to just leave your amp on.

I don't have the option and my answer is more of an educated guess.

Splawndude,

Want to thank you for enlightening me with regard to cathode stripping, (cathode bombardment),  and by association the 'standby myth'.  You were right, seems Standby is nothing but a mute switch.  I did a quick search and became much more knowledgable.  The history of the Standby switch inclusion and implimentation on guitar amps is quite interesting and amusing. Link for anyone else. blacklodgeamps.tumblr.com/post/96920205757/the-stand-by-myth

All these years and I thought Stand by was doing something. Seems it's not doing anything at all. 

Thanks and Cheers,

Tom

[zerofivefour]

May 12, 2017 13:51:50 GMT -5 gtrjunior said:

Gotcha...yeah, he understandably gives short answers such as that!
Standby it is, from now on. Although I usually just leave it engaged.

GtrJr,

After reading the article I posted above regarding the Standby myth, I'm starting to wonder if putting the amp on standby is necessary at all. I'm going to take Scott's advice and do it though. 

It's worth a read if you have the time.

Cheers,

Tom

[splawndude]

Yeah,

I'd have defer to the experts. We are venturing into territory that I am not that familiar with.

I did find some useful links similar to what you found Tom. There is also a pretty neat 5 pager that Hartly Peavey wrote on the Standby that is pretty easy to find.

Honestly, I can't see how Standby would affect the B+ option one way or another but let's just take Scott's word for it and use it (for those that have it).

I personally am starting to use Standby less and less. Like if I'm playing and my phone rings. In the past I would have put my amp on Standby to take the call, but now I just turn the volume down.

I really can't, nor shouldn't, speak to this or the other options because A.) I don't have them, and B.) I'm not qualified LOL.

The Mid Switch I assumed was 'mid-cut' that cut some mids out of the signal.
The Old/New Switch I assumed was Scott's attempt to take the amp back to the earlier '3 pre' days that some have characterized as more aggressive. How - I have no idea.

I'm sure there are some guys on Rig-Talk that speak to all of this much more proficiently than I.

As it relates to the B+ Option I can only share with you what little information I gleaned and then provide a link I found tonight that kind of simplifies things a bit but you have to be willing to read through various articles and posts and kind of piece it together for yourself.

www.google.com/search?q=B%2B+voltages+on+guitar+amplifier&oq=B%2B+voltages+on+guitar+amplifier&aqs=chrome..69i57.9618j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Most all of hits in this link were pretty good sources of information with varying aspects on the topic. You could obviously modify the search a bit to get different types of information. Interestingly, "B+" is a left over term from the early 1900's and ham radios that used tubes and ran on batteries. Evidently, these B batteries were the size of a carton of cigarettes. These devices had tubes that both received and transmitted. Amps only transmit of course. Anyway the 'B' battery, like a 'C' or 'D' battery has a (+) and (-) terminal side and the "B+" term just carried over into PA systems and then amplifiers etc. The B+ side of the amp's power section is what carries the higher voltages. So when you engage the B+ option, it is my understanding that the voltages are dropped and thus producing a 'Brown Out' of sorts. There is also the 'A' side of the power but that is far as I can take it. If that is incorrect, then someone please speak up.

Does that make sense?

[briman]

I am not very tech savvy when it comes to amps but kinda makes sense to me but then the other part of my mind asks......why would they put standby switch on an amp? To eliminate annoying scratching and popping sounds when you unplug one guitar to another? To save tube life when not in use or powering on until tubes are hot and ready?? I don't know.....
I always use standby for everything. I wish Scott would elaborate a bit more on his answer of using stanby! I will send him an email.

[briman]

Ok i sent Scott an email. Will let you know what he says.

[zerofivefour]

Today's been busy,

I'll post a reply to Splawndude, later, as I appreciate the time You took to respond, as well as all of the info you provided. Thanks by the way.


However:

I was reading the online manual again, early this morning and found something interesting:

www.splawnguitars.com/QR_PM_Manual_New.pdf

Standby switch: Switches the High Voltage On or Off

This is an interesting description. It seems to actually have a purpose. I was surprised when I read it.

Thanks Briman for emailing Scott.

Cheers,

Tom

[splawndude]

Briman - the main reason for the Standby Switch in most amps in reality is to mute the signal going through the amp but leaving the heaters turned on at the same time to 'keep your tubes warm'.

Now this whole thing has been debated for decades as to whether or not it is even necessary. There are tons of articles out there on it. I know a guy, super technical, that left the amp power switch and standby on switch 'in play position' and turned off and on at the power supply strip only. Also keep in mind that not all manufacturers treat this the same either. For some Standby on means the amp in in Standby (mute) where other that means you ready to play. Find the Peavey article. It is well written and easy to understand. Peavey often uses a limiting resistor in many of their amps as they feel that is the real way to put an amp in 'Standby'.

Here: peavey.com/support/technotes/hartley/Chapter_6.pdf

Tom - yes the Standby switch turns the High Voltage (also known as the B+ side of the power) on and off. The heaters are low voltage so the idea is that your tubes stay warm for immediate play when coming off standby but you are not running high voltage through the tubes. I believe the idea behind all of this is that by doing this it saves on tubes. I also am to learn that this is mostly a thing with tube rectified power sections, which Splawns do not have. I read that tube rectified (power) amps take a bit longer (seconds) to come up to optimal operation. The argument has become, I think, that in fact this does not help the tubes at all and could actually be bad for them over the long run. Cathode Poisoning. If I am to understand this correctly, and again I'm not an expert or electrical engineer let alone an amp builder/modder, what I am hearing is that with high voltage power coming in and having nowhere to go it ends up being a bad thing.

:shrug:



PS: This is in no way to allude that Scott is doing it wrong. People expect Standby switches and I do see their use (changing guitars at a gig or taking a quick phone call). Mesa has them, Egnater has them, Marshall has them and Randall, Bruce and James are all smart people along with Scott. For example.

RIP James Marshall

Edit: Tom - your link didn't work but I have the manual and you are right about what is there.