Want a buffer, use a Boss pedal or dedicated?

[cvogue]

So I did an experiment the other night at band practice. Had the band listen in while I hit a chord with everything in the signal path but all effects off. Basically I've probably got 40+ feet of cabling going on (guitar to Banshee, tuner, wah, Phase 90, MXR 5150 OD to amp, effects send to Zoom G3, TC Spark boost and MXR 10 band EQ to effects return).

Everything is true bypass except for the Zoom, but that's late in the chain.

Anyway, I then just plugged directly into the amp and hit the same chord it sounded better, clearer... regained a bit of high end.

So, I'm thinking I should have a buffer at the beginning of the chain. Other guitarist lent me a Boss CS-3 compressor that I didn't get to try but I will next time.

To make a long story short (I know, too late!) how do the Boss buffers (and of course the one in the CS-3 specifically) compare to something like the TC Bona-Fide dedicated buffer... especially on a Splawn?

Amp of course is my Streetrod and it does seem to be picky when it comes to buffers, the Crybaby 95Q made it sound terrible, but that pedal has a buffer that isn't so great. (Thanks to gtrjunior for cluing me in on that!)

[briman]

I remember i struggled with tone loss way back. If i remember correctly, the main culprits were mxr comp and boss ge-7 equalizer? When i took them out of the chain, the signal was much stronger.

Nowadays I have no tone suck going on at all as i test it by removing all chain and go straight in to amp. I have 5 boss pedals in there so don't know why ge7 would be tone sucker and other boss not?

My chain is guitar- tuner - wah - od - flange - phase - noise sup - amp
In the loop .....chorus - delay - harmonist - return

Pedals are Boss tu3, evh wah, boss sd1(Japan), evh flanger, evh phase 90, boss ns2, mxr analog chorus, boss dd20 and boss ps6.

[gtrjunior]

I’d say if you have a need for a boss pedal, why not?
If there isn’t a need then a dedicated buffer may do the trick.



briman
I’m surprised the GE-7 gave you problems. Maybe it doesn’t have a buffer because it’s usually an “always on” pedal? (Just a guess)

The MXR otoh is a notorious tone sucker.

[briman]

Yeah i have no idea why it sucked tone so much. Maybe i had a bad one??

[cvogue]

Found this out there on TGP kinda explains (sorta) Boss GE-7 tone suck:


In some Boss pedals (the type that simply add the effect on top of the dry signal), the pre- and deemphasis circuits are part of the dry chain, even in bypass. Those can have a bigger impact on the tone than other Boss pedals.



VinceM said: ↑

As I recall, I get high end tone suck in my GE-7 too. Does this pedal also have alot going on in bypass compared with the BD-2?

The GE-7 bypass signal path does feature pre and de emphasis.

[cvogue]

So I borrowed a Boss CS-3 from the other guitarist and put it at the front of my chain, guitar right into the Boss and then into the rest of my rig. Had it off most of the night and the rig sounded great. Thought "well is this Boss thing doing anything?" Took it out of the chain, plugged back in and wow! It was kinda muddy, lost some high end and basically an aspect of my former tone that had been bugging me was back.

Capacitance and high end tone loss with true bypass is real folks! If you've got a bunch of cabling and no buffers in your chain (or way late in your chain) then your tone is probably suffering.

And... aliens are real too!

[gtrjunior]

Nov 2, 2018 14:54:15 GMT -5 cvogue said:

So I borrowed a Boss CS-3 from the other guitarist and put it at the front of my chain, guitar right into the Boss and then into the rest of my rig. Had it off most of the night and the rig sounded great. Thought "well is this Boss thing doing anything?" Took it out of the chain, plugged back in and wow! It was kinda muddy, lost some high end and basically an aspect of my former tone that had been bugging me was back.

Capacitance and high end tone loss with true bypass is real folks! If you've got a bunch of cabling and no buffers in your chain (or way late in your chain) then your tone is probably suffering.

And... aliens are real too!

I guess the question is:
What do you have in your signal chain that’s causing this?

[cvogue]

I think it's just the amount of cabling...
Guitar to pedalboard - 10-12 feet
Within the pedalboard before the input of the amp - ~5 feet
Pedalboard to amp - 10-12 feet
Effects send to multiprocessor (which is buffered) 10-12 feet
(Kinda moot from here as my Zoom G3 is buffered)
Within the pedalboard before the return to amp - ~2 feet
Last effect to amp return - 10-12 feet.

Again, plugging straight in sounds great and the buffer helps a lot too, in fact the MXR 10 band eq in the loop doesn't do nearly as much when I've got the Boss at the very beginning of the chain (was using it to boost the highs a bit).

[gtrjunior]

What brand of cable are you using?
My board has a sh!t ton of cable too. But my switcher is buffered. When I was building my board I went back and forth between plugging straight in and through the board....just to be sure I was good to go.

[cvogue]

Cable brands vary but they're pretty good. Lots of Planet Waves, some Mogami....

[gtrjunior]

Yeah, I made my own patch cable from Lake Cable but my longer cables are Planet waves too...
I’ve been very happy with these brands.
What pedals are you running?



And yes, aliens are real.

[cvogue]

Nov 2, 2018 18:38:22 GMT -5 gtrjunior said:

Yeah, I made my own patch cable from Lake Cable but my longer cables are Planet waves too...
I’ve been very happy with these brands.
What pedals are you running?



And yes, aliens are real.

Top post lists them... too lazy to type them out again.

[gtrjunior]

I understand....I was too lazy to look.

[cvogue]

Nov 2, 2018 20:26:24 GMT -5 gtrjunior said:

I understand....I was too lazy to look.

[Tempest]

Just gotta say, I had trouble with the GE-7 in the Nitro's fx loop. Major tone loss. But it worked OK with my marshall, I don't know if it's a buffer thing or not.