Splawn Nitro 2010 - fizzy sound with FX loop on low volume

[alseic]

By low  volume I mean bedroom like volume, I'm just an hobbyist... I've tried some small amps, but I haven't found one which I liked...so I have 3 > 100W amps now.

Question 1: My amp with FX loop engaged sounds very fizzy on low volume. Is it normal?

When I use FX loop my sound is very fizzy. I can't dial that fizz out.
It gets better when amp volume is set high, I mean it sounds more like amp without FX loop, but I must use very low FX knob setting to get good sound, otherwise it's too loud.

That's not a big issue for me, because I've dialed quite nice sound without FX loop, and I rarely use effects in loop, I just wondered if I can get better sound with FX loop level trick...
Now I don't know if that's possible because I don't want to mess with FX loop unless you tell me that it's normal behavior.

At 1:06 I'm turning loop off. 



Question 2: Could you recommend some popular (I live in Europe, I need something easy to get and resale) speaker with more mids than V30 and more pleasant highs?
I like tight, clear bass of V30, nice low-mids, but compared to Marshall Vintage speakers (different V30) they lack mids and highs are a bit too harsh.

I've mixed them (Marshall Vintage and V30) in 4x12 cab, Marshall speakers were more present, had fuller/meatier mids, so for now I'm using 4x Marshall speakers. My only issue with these speakers is bass, it's too warm/middy, not so tight and clear like in V30 speakers. 

I've read forums and you recommend Smallblocks but I'd like to try something more typical first. Would greenbacks be good? Or some Warehouse(WGS) speakers? 

Question 3: Can you recommend some set of tubes to get distinct (3d, think tung-sol, LPS preamp tubes) sound with nice, crunchy mids?

By distinct tone I mean not plain sound, more like plexi. I don't need much gain or sag, I just need cutting, tight, crispy sound. I have 2 amps which are nice for that, Nitro seems to have more round, thick, 3d, sound with tubes which I currently use so I want to focus on that, I just need more mids.

For example I've tried running 4x12ax7 Ruby/China tubes, Nitro sounded brighter, tighter, had nice presence, but lacked crunch/open big round sound, just lost that nice 3d-round sound, it was like another high-gain amp, and in that case I liked Marshall 6100 and Peavey 6534 better.

Currently I'm running Svetlana (S - not winged C) KT88 and 3x  Svetlana 12ax7 tubes + 1x EHX (more mids, meat).
I've tried: Chinese/Ruby (tight, bright, nice mids, but lacked crunch/crisp sound, not round like JJ/Svetlana), JJ ECC83(similar to svetlana, distinct(round) sound, but compared to Svetlanas - less mids, harsher highs), Tung Sol 12ax - too open, not so cutting, LPS - too dark, plain sounding (I like this tube, but for some reason I didn't like it in this amp).


Sorry for this messy, long post.

BTW. I know I should write to amp builder first, but I've already sent some other questions (silly ones, but still...) to Splawn and Splawn FB profile - no answers, so I hope that somebody will help me with FX loop issue.

[guitarathome]

MY 2010 sounds the same with the effects loop in or out. It has the loop volume that affects overall volume but no matter what I do it does not go fizzy like that.

What year is your Nitro?

I run my Nitro with a Marshall b cab with 75s it has a smooth top end and great bass. I also have a Mesa rectifier cab with v30s that would sound great but the very top end ruins it.

[Tempest]

Hey Alseic,

Try patching your loop. Without anything running through it it'll sound exactly like the sound in your vid. If you're not using it, make sure it's set to OFF.

Hope this helps bro, the nitro slays at gig levels.

[alseic]

I'm using cable, I mean I have simple short cable, used for effects, plugged into send and return. Loop switch is pushed in, 2nd switch (loop level) is off (AFAIR ON makes things worse).
I've tested two cables, same resuls.

I've also noticed that on clean channel there is almost no difference when FX level is set high (I mean this is good).
This video shows this(cam doesn't capture whole sound, differences are much more noticeable in real life):

clean
4:00 loop off/on?
4:15 loop on/off?
overdrive
6:30 treble 0, presence 0, loop ON
6:45 loop OFF

My guess is maybe there is some kind of compensation for overdrive channel, simple fx volume knob would roll off some highs. Or signal level is different, maybe there is some kind of impedance problem with cable running in loop.

The amp was bought in 2011 in UK, serial number is Nitro 1041 (or Nitro/041), so I guess it's 2010 model. It has Heyboer transformers.

Also there is a small issue, but camera didn't capture it-on very high gain settings it sounds like there is distorted/compressed sound mixed with not-compressed, less distorted highs (so there is weird feeling, you hear kicking/dynamic highs but remaining frequencies are compressed). Anyway that gain settings on low volume is crazy so probably this is normal, most amps sound weird (usually fuzzy) on high gain settings, especially on low volume.

I think I'll just try to contact Splawn.

[Tempest]

I see what you mean. Mine's an 08, no loop volume control - yeah give scott a call bro, I've heard of other players on here a similar problem.

[Ayton(e)]

Feb 5, 2014 14:29:10 GMT -5 alseic said:

By low  volume I mean bedroom like volume, I'm just an hobbyist... I've tried some small amps, but I haven't found one which I liked...so I have 3 > 100W amps now.

Question 1: My amp with FX loop engaged sounds very fizzy on low volume. Is it normal?

This was certainly the case on all Splawn amps for a number of years, including my 2007 Competition. I don't know if they solved it. There is even mention of this issue in the manuals, and if you search the forum you'll find hundreds of posts about it.

The only way to beat it is to raise the Master volume (front panel) until you hear the warm, full sound take over again. Don't go overboard; about 9 o'clock will do it. This will be crazy loud without attenuation, so for home use you then want to bring the signal down in the loop, using the built-in loop volume control (in the amps that have one) or with a volume pedal, volume box, or effects unit. I used a PicoVerb.

Eventually I just stopped using the loop. Even run like this it still doesn't sound as good as when it's bypassed. This loop has always been the weak point in the Splawn line for me. To get great low volume tone with the loop bypassed, make sure the Solo control is up past 9 o'clock. This control is directly linked to the Master volume, if you look inside the amp, and interacts with it even when not in Solo mode.

On speakers, Greenbacks may not be for you. Probably my favorite Celestions, but they have a looser low-end than you seek. One thought: If you always play at low volume, your V30s may never have been broken in, which contributes to a harsh top end. You'd be surprised what a few hours of pounding dubstep can do for a set of guitar speakers!

Let us know how you get on.

[alseic]

Wow, thanks Ayton, now I feel much better, I was afraid that something was really wrong with my amp.

After reading your post I've checked forums for similar problem, I might used wrong keywords but I didn't find that much, but I found many threads on other forums with the same issue. I've found manual for QR which states that we should NOT use channel vol over 9 with fx engaged:
www.splawnguitars.com/QR_PM_Manual.pdf
That's weird.

Anyway, your solo trick is superb.

I've messed with preamp tubes to get more mids (make amp brighter) and still keep that distinct, round tone.
Setting mid knob high helps somehow but these mids are like in Peavey amps, too much makes it a bit too smooth/thick/not cutting.
Using that solo knob really brings mids and thickens the tone in a good way.

I will have to try different mids settings with solo set higher, it's a bit too loose for my taste (My resonance is on 0, I like dry sound, only sometimes I use highter settings with low gain/bass), but still better than solo at 0.

[Ayton(e)]

I'm really pleased that is working out for you. Splawns are strange amps with their own quirks, but I wouldn't give mine up. The Solo control thing is one such quirk. It fixes low volume tone, but they don't tell anyone! It has greatly helped me sound good at any level.

Our search feature is also kind of quirky.

Feb 13, 2014 15:09:04 GMT -5 alseic said:

Wow, thanks Ayton, now I feel much better, I was afraid that something was really wrong with my amp.

After reading your post I've checked forums for similar problem, I might used wrong keywords but I didn't find that much, but I found many threads on other forums with the same issue. I've found manual for QR which states that we should NOT use channel vol over 9 with fx engaged:
www.splawnguitars.com/QR_PM_Manual.pdf
That's weird.

We have a little language barrier here. The manual says "when using the efx loop do not run channel volumes over noon". Because Splawns don't have numbers printed around the controls, we use clock face numbers to describe settings. "Noon" means pointing straight up, like when a clock is at 12 p.m.



In my previous post, for example, I recommended setting some controls to around 9 o'clock, which means pointing left, where 9 would be on a clock face. On a normal amp this would be around 2.

I see they have removed much from the new manuals, including any mention of the freaky effects loop performance. Luckily the original is still online here! What it says is: "The loop will seem to add gain and high end to the tone, however as you bring the master volume up the power section catches up with the pre-amp section."

Adding 'gain and high end' is a rather understated way to describe the thin screechy noise the loop makes at home volumes, but at least you can see that it was once acknowledged right there in the manual.

[alseic]

I guess nine looked too similar to noon for me
And that link you've provided makes things clear - thanks again.